{"version":"1.0","provider_url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu","provider_name":"Warpwire","is_public":true,"duration":0,"has_caption":true,"links":{"caption":[{"label":"English","url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/api\/caption\/qbIIAA\/333671\/vtt\/?nonce=bf4b0f58acd33cba35ee060c93593134&expiration=1787371200&signature=4ba7ec3008a65347801797fe5124a4f39ec5e637e28344ffd6bc9c8dc9716bde"}]},"views":1,"upload_date":"2025-02-05T15:40:47+00:00","description":"Joining the podcast team today is Shayna Heinrich, Co-Founder and VP of Operations for The Social Institute, as we discuss an answer, or many, to the question what is the road less traveled?    Description:\u202f  The road to the job of your dreams is not a hop, skip, and a jump away. Sometimes, it requires traversing inhospitable landscapes, dodging treacherous obstacles, and more patience than you ever fathomed. Metaphors aside, figuring out how to reach your end goal is not always clear. It takes time and persistence \u2013 a willingness to fail and commitment to trying. For this series, we thought we would ask Duke alums, what it was like to take the road less traveled to arrive at their current career.\r\n\r\nTranscript: Hello and welcome to the What's Career Got to Do With It podcast, where we hope to provide a space for honest conversation and information that encourages the listener to take the next steps in their career journey. Wherever you're at in this process, we hope this episode will meet you with affirmation, guidance, and maybe some laughs along the way.\r\n\r\n- Joining us today is Shayna Heinrich, co-founder and VP of Operations for the Social Institute. As we discuss an answer or many to the question, what is the road less traveled?\r\n\r\n- Good morning.\r\n\r\n- Welcome.\r\n\r\n- Woo-hoo, morning. We have a soundboard of stuff here and I don't have it turned up, so I don't know if we wanna...\r\n\r\n- Alright.\r\n\r\n- That was a new one.\r\n\r\n- That was a new one, okay.\r\n\r\n- See, when you clean it, it brings up new sounds to the top of the board.\r\n\r\n- Welcome to our chaos.\r\n\r\n- I love it.\r\n\r\n- So Shayna, thank you for joining us today. And you know, we can read your bio, but I would actually rather hear from you, you know, kind of unedited version of your background. I know you have some experience in athletics, you have some experience in higher education as a whole, and then you're outside of higher education now. So do you mind sharing a little bit about who you are? You know, a little bit of that background at Duke too and... Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, yeah. I would love to. So thinking back, I am originally from Pennsylvania, so born and bred in Central PA, small town, worked hard, played a bunch of sports growing up. And then I came to Duke, which was exciting and a surprise and a whirlwind all at once. I played on the varsity field hockey team at Duke, which was an amazing and challenging experience to come to a really, really great college academically and to also come to a really great field hockey program. I played in, I believe it was, was two national championships and three final fours. So really the epitome of a great college athletic experience, but of course was very challenging to balance it at all, you know, when you're 18 to 22. So really great learning experience. I really learned a lot, went through ups and downs of that whole experience. But I wouldn't trade it in for... You know, for the world. So I was at Duke and graduated in 2008, which now seems like a while ago to me, it seems like I'm still in my 20s, although I'm not. So, and I studied psychology and cultural anthropology while I was here and really knew... Didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I knew I liked psychology, I liked helping people learning about different... The way the mind works, different interactions, you know, stuff like that. And culture anthropology was more just really the opportunity to expand my knowledge base. I wasn't... Didn't have any background of that in my high school. So I just thought it was a really neat, you know, field of study to have while I was here at Duke and really enjoyed those classes a lot. But didn't know exactly what I was gonna do with them as a career. But it was just more of the opportunity to take advantage of what Duke had to offer with that. And so, you know, I was approaching graduation in May, 2008, which was also when we had, you know, a bit economic ups and downs as well. So I... You know, that is when I got my first job really based off of different relationships and networks at Duke. My first job was in student athlete development and championships at Duke University. And I was offered the position from my original academic advisor, Jackie Seiler. She was one of the associate ADs, she, I believe, has retired since and was just a mentor, advisor, someone I spoke to. And just really was very... Felt very lucky and honestly blessed to get that opportunity, you know, from working with her. You know, she picked me out of all the athletes to work with and knew... Just gave me that experience. So that was great. And I worked in that position, I believe... Or I worked in Duke Athletics, I believe, for at least five years. Five to six, I believe. And through that time I also received my master's degree in education in a counseling department at NC State. So I was working full-time and also driving the fun route of, you know, 40, you know, a couple days a week. And that was-\r\n\r\n- It's not better.\r\n\r\n- That was fun.\r\n\r\n- It's not better.\r\n\r\n- And that was before, you know, a lot of things were on Zoom, so I was going in person to everything. So going to the office five days a week and then going down to Raleigh a couple days a week in the evening. But the program, it allowed me to do that because it was a lot of different educators who also attended the program. So most classes started around 5:00... 4:00 or 5:00 or 6:00 and then went to around 8:00, 9:00 or 10:00 depending on the class. So I was able to work full-time, which helped me pay for the degree and also get my master's 'cause I knew, you know, working in higher education to really continue to grow, you needed a master's in education or a master's degree if I wanted to just keep some options open. I didn't necessarily wanna go be a counselor, but I knew that was also a field of study that interests me and could... I could use in many different fields, whichever kind of way I went. And if this is too much information, I can pause, I'll just-\r\n\r\n- We love it.\r\n\r\n- Good.\r\n\r\n- So that was great, I loved that experience. I think my first... What I call like job family at Duke was amazing. I worked with five individuals who were all, you know, probably around 35, 40 and up, which is now my age. But then, you know, as a 21-year-old, 22-year-old, definitely different stage of life. But they always treated me very equal. I never felt like I was a recent grad and my opinion was valued and we worked hard, but we really, really had fun together. And that just set a high bar for my first kind of like job family. And I still... You know, they just have a special place in my heart, those five individuals who I worked really closely with. So from that time I stayed in Duke Athletics, but once I got my degree, I switched over in more of like an academic advising area. And I did that I believe for a year and a half, two years. I enjoyed it but I knew it wasn't what I wanted to do long term. So I believe sometime in the fall an opportunity came up at the Duke Career Center and employer relations. And I was super excited about that because it was still working in higher ed but it was getting outta my comfort zone of athletics. And that was really important to me to kind of break out of the athletic world. 'Cause I had been in that world for a while, but I thought it would be important to challenge myself. And so, but it was still in higher ed, still working with students, all students, and employer relations was really exciting to me 'cause it was that mix between the employer business world and still working in a, you know, higher ed and working with students. I still had some counseling sessions but I also managed the different... The interviews, the career fairs, which really worked my highly organization skills. I'm definitely more like an organization behind the scenes, get stuff done kind of person. So it was a great mix of that. I believe I was at the career center for just about two years. I had my first child, I had gotten married at some point, I forgot to mention that. I had gotten married at some point while I was in athletics. And then I had my first child, which was a challenge because like I said, at that point in time, definitely was getting to the office at 7:30. I don't know if Leanne still does that, but she used to do that.\r\n\r\n- She's an early bird. That she is.\r\n\r\n- In order to get home and time to help the children. And I was like, well I would like to see my baby before, you know, she goes to bed at 7:00 p.m. and I lived about 45 minutes from Durham. So I would get to the office at 7:30 and then leave around 4:30 to get my child in order to have, you know, a little bit of an evening with her. And so that was quite an experience of managing lots of hats and spending a lot of time in the car driving as well. And I really enjoyed that experience. It was awesome. But then unexpectedly out of the blue, an opportunity came up where I'm at now, although it looks completely different of where I'm at now. A former teammate of mine from Duke on the field hockey team moved back to the area. She also had her first baby. We like reconnected. We were good... We were friends, you know, we hadn't kept in touch from the 10 plus years after graduation but, you know, we would get together. And she started talking to me about how she was using all her vacation days at our current position, which was an ad agency, I believe McKinney in Durham, to go present to different schools. To help students really navigate at that time, social media and cell phones and what is going on. And I was like, wow, you know, that's pretty cool. And I was more like a sounding board, just kind of listening to her, both working moms in our low 30s, balancing babies and really also careers. You know, we were really driven about that too. And probably a couple months later, I believe my daughter was about eight months old, she started, I would say in the college or the athletics term, recruiting me. She started like taking me out to lunch or coffees and kind of just chatting about what she was doing. And I was learning more and more. And then I can remember we were sitting at Parker and Otis with... And some of you might know Parker and Otis in downtown Durham, it was at its original location. We were there and we were kind of getting scrappy, writing and she was talking to me about, she was creating this company called the Social Institute. She didn't have any full-time employees. She had a contractor I believe who did some... Some content work just part-time basis. And then of course other contractors who did more like part-time website, that kind of thing. And she asked me to really take a chance and leave a really good job at Duke University. You know, very stable, right? You know, very higher ed, Duke's a great institution that job's probably gonna be there, great benefits and take a chance and come work with her at the startup as their first full-time employee. And kind of use my skills and operations, very organized. I was doing... I could manage different travel, at that time the company was really just going to schools and presenting and working with students in person. So my first position was director of operations, but really in the sense of helping manage travel, helping coordinate between schools. Very logistics, and of course all the behind the scenes, you know, running and quote paychecks for, you know, two people. You know, that's not really... You know, a full like HR or business sense needed. I decided to take that chance. I really thought about it a lot with my husband 'cause of course we had a child, you know, study... You know, consistent income at least. And all of that and we're... But I realized that this was such a chance to grow and gain a lot of professional experience and personal experience along the way. But definitely professional experience. And if it didn't work out, fine, right? Like it didn't work out. I would've had at least six to... Six months to a year of a really cool opportunity that I would have learned a lot from. And, you know, Laura is the teammate who recruited me and she's the CEO and founder and still there. And, you know, she was very persuasive as well. She definitely like got into my athletic drive of competition and like, \"we wanna help students, we wanna do the right thing, it's gonna grow and we're gonna push each other a lot.\" And I was like, \"oh, okay, whatever.\" You know, like, this sounds great. I just kind of was like, \"this is good. I think I'll do it.\" And it also had the opportunity to work remotely for a couple days a week, which in my current state, that was great. 'Cause, you know, where I live, I would commute over an hour between the house to daycare to home... Or to work and so forth. And so I was like, \"this is cool.\" This is when no one really worked remote. I'll try this, you know. And so I officially joined, it was October, 2017, I believe. And the company has grown and changed and my position... Everything has changed since I've been there in such a really positive and exciting way that I would've never thought, like I could never foresee. So it's been a really cool opportunity and challenging opportunity in all the right ways. So I'm gonna pause there. So I know I just gave quite the story of... A long story.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Well, thank you so much for that. And I know we all have so many different answers. So maybe I'll just kick us off and say as a former athlete, and I know Angela also has experienced this, as you transition from college athletics into your first role, what did that look like for you? What were some of the thoughts going through your brain of like, \"all right, can I do this? Like what does this look like? How did I go from a athlete who is driven in their sport, focusing on that into a new role outside of...\" Well, kind of towards athletics, but still it's different. You change a little bit of who you are.\r\n\r\n- Yeah. Just to give a more of a joking answer and then I'll give a serious one. The first thing I noticed was, \"wow, I have free time after like 6:00 p.m.,\" and that was amazing. I was like, \"I don't have homework, I don't have practice. I can do something that interests me.\" So that was really exciting. As someone whose time was very structured as a student athlete at college, that I loved. But I think transitioning into the work world for me, it probably was partly in my comfort zone staying within Duke Athletics. You know, I think looking back I was more of a quiet kid. So like I can see that that was appealing for me. And it was with some individuals who, like I said, they were a great work family who really helped me grow and were very kind and very supportive. And also, I learned some great things in that first... The first few years because part of my job was also working in championships. So Duke athletics championships can happen mostly on weekends, right? Or we have like different student events which happen at 7:30 p.m. which I'm sure you all are used to those challenge... You know, not challenging but just different hours. It's not like a, you know, 8:00 to 5:00 p.m. kind of job working in higher ed. So I learned just some... I think some things that were great for my career of like, hey, maybe on Saturday I wanted to stay at home but, you know, I had a job to do so I just went and did it. And I thought that was just really good experience to have as a 22, 23-year-old to kind put your preferences behind the job. And sometimes you just have to do it. And that was a good thing I thought learning as a young professional, so.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- I kind of wanna hop back to where you were talking about, excuse me, deciding to go to grad school. I mean, you went into the counseling education and I heard you specifically say, \"I didn't really go into it to be a counselor.\" So could you kind of go into that a little bit? 'Cause you know, we have those conversations with students and they feel like, \"I gotta get this degree 'cause this is what I'm going to do, and this is the only way to get there.\" So can you kind of talk about your thought process in saying, \"yes, this could work and I can make it work in other spaces?\"\r\n\r\n- Yeah, no, that's great. So I'd love to expand on that. So I was working, I believe for about a year and a half to almost two years before I went to grad school. Mainly two reasons really to figure out exactly what I wanted to go to grad school for, but also to get some tuition assistance because I was paying my way. So I wanted to make it the most financially beneficial for myself. 'Cause Duke had the great benefit of tuition assistance, I believe after you were there for a year or two, can't remember what it was exactly. So when I was deciding that I applied to some counseling programs and I also applied to athletic administration programs and I did get into the athletic administration programs and that was really influenced by my current position and my current mentors of just seeing what they were doing. And I thought that was pretty cool. But while I was really thinking through what I wanted to do, I realized I might not wanna always stay in athletic administration. I may wanna branch out and counselor education, I can see that being used in a lot of different areas, whether I stay in athletics, whether I go into career center, higher ed, or, you know, join the business world of what I'm doing now. Probably having those people skills will benefit me in some way. And I really liked the classes that fit into my life. I could take it at night and still have a full-time job. So a lot of things just kind of aligned up, which is ultimately why I chose NC State and the counselor ed program. They also had three different tracks, which was really neat. And the one I did was in student development, I believe now it's called college counseling. I don't know if that's changed. But then you still got overlap with like school counseling classes and also more like clinical counseling classes. So they were enjoyable. And really my psychology interests, they built on that interest as well. So it was interesting and I think practical, kind of a practical person. So it seemed like a good balance to me.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- I think for me that... Thank you for sharing that too. I'm familiar with their program and so I understand and it's funny to me that you were saying you used to have to drive back and forth because I think it's remote now. So folks who are doing that program, appreciate it, appreciate it. Thank-\r\n\r\n- Yes.\r\n\r\n- But one thing I thought was interesting about your story was towards the beginning, how you said as a recent undergraduate graduating out of Duke, you had that one mentor who gave you that... What felt like at the moment that once in a lifetime chance and that helped make that transition from student to adult, so to speak, a little bit more easier and comfortable to take. But when you took that step from there into working in the career center in the ER, what was that sort of catalyst that made you take that leap that eventually led to this new role in your startup?\r\n\r\n- I think the leap probably was to... I've been with my husband for, gosh, almost 14, 15 years and he has challenged me in a positive way of you grow when you get outta your comfort zone. So he did not obviously make that decision to leave Duke Athletics to go to the career center, but his influence probably in the background helped me move that way in my decision of... Obviously it's still in higher ed, it's still at Duke-\r\n\r\n- Right.\r\n\r\n- But it's totally outside of the athletic family kind of environment. So I think knowing that like I've worked with these awesome people, it was really hard to leave them, but I thought I could grow more professionally and just for myself by kind of taking that leap and getting out of comfort zone.\r\n\r\n- That's awesome, that's awesome.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- I have a question kind of as you were taking these different leaps and taking these different steps along the way, I am sure there were some highs and lows, right? And we talk to our students all the time and you probably still resonate this with, you know, like, you're not gonna have one career, right? You're not gonna pick one thing and that's gonna be it. So can you kind of think back on some of the... Or maybe offer up some tips or insight on how you either kept yourself going through those highs and lows and maybe something you took out of that that might be beneficial to our students who maybe at this point they're juniors and thinking, \"oh, I might be interested in something else. Is that okay?\" Like those types of scenarios?\r\n\r\n- Yeah, no, definitely. I can definitely think back to when I was a senior in college and probably in my, you know, low to mid 20s of my career where those... I don't know, the highs and lows seemed to be a lot stronger or maybe, you know, just with life experiences, they impacted me a lot more than... I do remember, you know, I was approaching graduation week and did not have a job yet and some of my teammates who were part of my class, you know, they had done internships at some really great like Nike and Under Armour and they got a position through those internships and it was all kind of settled and good and, you know, thumbs up. And I remember thinking this is an awesome opportunity within Duke, but also it's like, but I'm not leaving Duke, you know, is that the... You know, like your head just like kind of like spins and you know, looking back it's like, yeah, it's a great opportunity within an awesome athletic department. Like, great, you were at Duke and now you're still at Duke. That's a good thing, that's not bad. But you know, at that time I remember being in my head a little bit of like, will people judge? Like what will people think of that? And you know, and you just... Honestly, it's like, you know what? Make the decision for you and is this the right thing and nothing is permanent, right? And I think you also always get something out of every opportunity, whether it's a good opportunity or something that doesn't pan out. You should learn from it-\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Agreed.\r\n\r\n- We're gonna do-\r\n\r\n- And just to continue with that, I mean even like leaving my current position to join a startup with a teammate, I was like, \"what are people gonna think with that?\" You know?\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- But now I'm like VPO and we oversee like... We have a team of 35 plus people and-\r\n\r\n- Wow.\r\n\r\n- It has been awesome and I have learned so much through it that I don't think I would get that in any other, you know, career kind of experience, so.\r\n\r\n- I got one more question, one more... Yeah, one more question if you could kind of give some advice because when we talk about networking with our students, they kind of get a little uh oh, like a deer in a head light, and so I... You know, listening to you talk about like you creating your network and like... You know, I know you said you kind of like refining the background running things, so how did you... How did you grow your network? Were you just in the right places at the right time or did you really have to, again, push outside that comfort zone and what did that look like?\r\n\r\n- Yeah, so if I would look back at myself in college, I'd be like, I'm not a networker. That is not me. I'm still not a networker. I am like a.... I like to get my job done, do well, but I also like to be true to who I am. And that is just like, be kind and be genuine to who you are and you'll probably connect with someone. Like no matter what your personality is, to me that is the best way to network as more of an introverted, quiet individual is just being like friendly and kind to who... And like true to who you are and you'll make connections that way. Like Laura, CEO, she's a great networker, she's outgoing, she is social, that is her strength and I applaud it. That is not me. But I can still make connections, you know, just as much, maybe not as many, but they can also be pretty meaningful I think.\r\n\r\n- Just as much-\r\n\r\n- And now looking back, I was like, \"oh, well maybe my advisor got to know me and saw that in me, gave me the opportunity.\" And then even Laura giving me the opportunity to come work with her. We weren't the same year, we got along, but we weren't like best of friends in college. But obviously we had a good relationship that she trusted me to choose me to do this with her. And you know, we've been working together and having to manage as the challenges of being a professional, a boss, a friend, you know, like the... Both going through motherhood and a second baby, like all at the same time. And we've been able to manage it. So pretty proud of that as well.\r\n\r\n- So you hear that, y'all just be... You don't overdo it, just be you.\r\n\r\n- And I really wanna lean into that, that comfort zone conversation. And I wanna think about like balancing that comfort zone and thinking a lot of our students when they feel like, \"alright, I'm gonna take this next step,\" but then that anxiety rises, like you feel it... You feel it rising in your body and you're like, \"can I apply to this? Can I do this? Should I do this?\" Like where is that medium and is there a medium or do you just have to kind of lean into that anxiety knowing because it means you care, but then also sometimes that allows you to have new opportunities. And I'm curious like what's your take or what's your speech to students when they talk about, \"all right, I'm leaving this comfort zone, what do I do next and how do I find a balance?\"\r\n\r\n- Hmm, that is a tough question. Let me think through this. I think being... It's okay to be anxious about stuff, especially as a college student, you are doing so many firsts and even though you might be 18 to 22, you still have so much more life experience to gain. And I know, I know going to Duke, definitely as more of a quiet individual from central Pennsylvania, I didn't always feel like I belonged all the time. Just I was introduced to like a lot of different experiences at Duke which I didn't see in my smaller town. So that just caused anxiety as well and, you know, when I was young, but I think sometimes you just have to push through it and don't hold your back because... Yourself back because of that anxiety, still put your name out there and you might not get it and it's okay, you know. And I probably applied to a bunch of internships and jobs when I was graduating from Duke and obviously I didn't get any of 'em and I got the job from someone I knew, which was unexpected. So I think kind of just being okay with anxiety, pushing through it, and don't be mad at yourself for having it. 'Cause you're still... Well, you're learning and you're growing and, you know, and you might always have it, you know, that's okay too. So, but you're gonna continue to learn from those different experiences.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Well thank you so much for your story, for being willing to join us today, to share with us, to help students find their pathway into what's next. And I think it's awesome that, you know, you get to that point where you're just like, \"all right, I'm gonna take a chance and I'm gonna lean into it.\" And here you are today and you are in your position today and you have wonderful opportunities to do things that you probably never thought you were going to do. And I hope that encourages our listeners. I hope that encourages students, staff, people outside of Duke that are listening to this podcast just to know that this pathway that we take, it's not necessarily linear. It could hop all over the place. And sometimes you make that gut check or there's somebody in our life that tells us, \"hey, go ahead and take this next step in your life and just see what happens and go for it,\" and surround yourself with people who are gonna be supportive of that, and be there with you. So Shayna, thank you so much for joining us today.\r\n\r\n- Yes, thank you.\r\n\r\n- This has been the What's Career got to Do With It podcast. And we hope to talk to you again soon.\r\n\r\n- Bye now.\r\n\r\n- Thank you so...\r\n\r\n- Thank you all, that was great. I appreciate it.","author_name":"Sandhya Pakala","html":"\u003Ciframe width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/w\/qbIIAA\/\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"autoplay; encrypted-media; camera; microphone; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen\u003E\u003C\/iframe\u003E","height":360,"width":640,"thumbnail_height":360,"thumbnail_width":640,"url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/w\/qbIIAA\/","type":"video","title":"What is the road less traveled with Shayna Heinrich '08","thumbnail_url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/img\/10ED13AE-DB77-4E78-BDAA-21F9B14D30E1\/898A8FD7-6D48-45FF-AFFD-F4F1DA549A63\/large\/"}