{"version":"1.0","provider_url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu","provider_name":"Warpwire","is_public":true,"duration":0,"has_caption":true,"links":{"caption":[{"label":"English","url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/api\/caption\/Bf4HAA\/310111\/vtt\/?nonce=aed9c371fbe5a743f2e81d525299103b&expiration=1787371200&signature=4d89b9f8e05c7d58801e032ef0a6e72c58a30fc79762c9ee9c6e54445d484bb6"}]},"views":2,"upload_date":"2023-11-01T14:45:07+00:00","description":"The podcast team and Catherine Allen discuss how to be confident that we are more than our 9-5.  \r\nHow they separate what they do on day-today basis with who they are at home or in other capacities?\r\nWhat are some of the assumptions encountered about the role of work in daily lives?\r\nWhat are some helpful suggestions for people seeking to find balance in their work\/life?\r\n\r\n\r\nTranscript:\r\n- Hello, and welcome, to the what's Career got to Do with IT podcast, where we hope to provide a space for honest conversation and information that encourages the listener to take the next steps in their career journey. Wherever you're at in this process, we hope this episode will meet you with affirmation, guidance, and maybe some laughs along the way.\r\n\r\n- On today's episode, we are joined by special guest, Catherine Allen, assistant director in the Duke Career Center. As we discuss an answer, or many, to the question, Who are we beyond the nine to five? Who are we beyond the nine to five? We've covered this in many different iterations, we've talked about this in a lot of different capacities. Kay's making fun of stuff right now. You hear, that was his breath into the mic. As we kind of dive a little bit deeper into this subject and we talk to different people and we think about different perspectives of who we are, when we take that work hat off, I'd really like to think of that hard hat, and just like, putting it down and going into a different mind or mental space. I think it was really interesting to hear from Mary Pat as she talked about like, there was like, a mixture of it, she has to, but then also, people have different types of boundaries that they enact in their life, and with our guest today, I would love to just start right off the bat with Catherine and be like, Catherine, what's it look like for you when that clock strikes five or whatever time you end up saying, \"Hey, I'm done with work.\" What does that look like for you, that transition?\r\n\r\n- It's a nice, fun drive home. I usually to drive home to really, like, zen out, so either I'm listening to like, a podcast, or I'm calling somebody that I need to just like, catch up with, and just have a moment of like connection with someone that's not related to work. So yeah, that's what I do. That's my like, buffer, between work and home.\r\n\r\n- I don't know if we've discussed this as hosts either, like, what we do, how do we unwind? What do I do?\r\n\r\n- I'm really schedule-driven, so I think literally once I leave, like my mind's on the next like, to-do thing. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but like, as soon as I leave here, my mind's on like, \"Okay, next I need to go to the store and shop for this stuff, or next, I need to call Mom and talk about this.\" Or next, I need to, like, my mind goes to the next thing until it's like, it's marked by time. So like, five, I leave, six, okay what am I gonna eat for dinner? Seven, going to the store, eight wash clothes, nine iron clothes, 10 be in the bed by that, like, that's where my mind goes to...\r\n\r\n- Wait.\r\n\r\n- And then repeats, repeats, repeats for five days until the weekend comes.\r\n\r\n- You iron immediately after washing your clothes?\r\n\r\n- Well, I mean you wash a set of clothes, and then you iron a set of clothes, so that you don't have laundry built up, so you have room. See, this is not what the conversation was about.\r\n\r\n- That's more efficient than I've ever been in my entire life.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, I'm really unfamiliar with that. I mean the the dryer, is the iron.\r\n\r\n- No, after you take it out the dryer, then you set aside what you're gonna wear, and then you iron that stuff out. Is that not a thing?\r\n\r\n- I mean, I plan it out, but I plan it such that I, lay my, I don't put it in most of my stuff in the dryer, I let it air dry.\r\n\r\n- Uh-huh?\r\n\r\n- But the dryer is the iron, unless it's a real bad wrinkle, like my jeans.\r\n\r\n- I gotta press...\r\n\r\n- I'm with you.\r\n\r\n- Everything.\r\n\r\n- Turns out Kay is not messy beyond, . Kay is tidy.\r\n\r\n- Real. Tidy.\r\n\r\n- I got a iron, yeah.\r\n\r\n- Whew!\r\n\r\n- That's practiced.\r\n\r\n- So similar to what you were saying.\r\n\r\n- Yes.\r\n\r\n- Similar to what you're saying.\r\n\r\n- There's a process involved.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, you got a process.\r\n\r\n- And that's like, my unraveling work stuff, by switching into like, personal time.\r\n\r\n- Okay. What about you Rudy? What do you do?\r\n\r\n- I mean, for me, I mean, the routine is, you know, hike to my car three quarters of a mile, get to the car usually my partner's called me by that point. Morgan, she calls me and I'm like, oh, we talk. And then she can't hear me because all the cars driving by me on my hike to my car, . And then we get in the car, we talk for a bit and then usually by that point on 5:40, 'cause my drive is so long, we've probably talked about 30 minutes. And I'm like, alright, I'm gonna need my quiet time. And that's something we have agreed upon that like I just sit in silence. I will just sit and listen to the road, listen to cars, listen to me yell at cars. Yeah, that's pretty much how I wind down. And then eventually I pick up sports radio and I listen to how bad my panthers are doing and... Yeah, so . Sometimes I guess the ride home could be stressful, but then I get home and I see my daughter and she comes up and greets me. That kind of flips the switch for me, I think is like walking through the door in athletics we talked about flipping the switch once you walk through like a doorway and you flip the switch and you enter the new place. That's kind of what I think about is that threshold walking through the threshold of the house. And here I am, I am not thinking about what I was just doing, yeah.\r\n\r\n- Hmm.\r\n\r\n- Rudy, are you yelling at the cars or the cars yelling at you because you're riding at Merge lane to the end?\r\n\r\n- Ooh...\r\n\r\n- It's a zipper merge, but yes they're probably also yelling at me. But hey, I gotta get home. I got a dog to feed, .\r\n\r\n- I got kids to feed, I got to go, on my ride home Kay just don't, Kay don't. I'm let it go, Kay, let it go. You good? Okay, there's the breath. On my ride home, I turn on some music. That's all I do. My offline playlist right now, Eric Robeson's at the top. Usually it's Jay-Z you know , I'm my age myself, but music is my decompression. And then for a moment, so then, 'cause when I get into the house, I'm rolling again, so yeah.\r\n\r\n- All right, now the reverse. What do we do to get ready for work? And I think I wanna put, yeah. I think that's fair, everybody just on the . Hey, guest... . You gotta talk, we're tired of it.\r\n\r\n- Go ahead. Yeah.\r\n\r\n- Okay so what do I do to get ready for work?\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- question yeah. Well, I'm usually startled awake by a dog because...\r\n\r\n- And what's your dog's name?\r\n\r\n- His name is Dude.\r\n\r\n- Yes, Dude.\r\n\r\n- Dude.\r\n\r\n- And I made the very poor dog parent choice early on in my relationship with Dude that he could sleep in the bed. Don't ever do that. Let me tell you, it's... Don't do it. So, now Dude is a senior dog and he can't jump up or down. So, I get startled awake, usually around like four or 5:00 AM to get him up or down or outside or fed or something and then I have a hard time falling back to sleep. So my morning usually starts with a solid hour to 90 minutes of doom scrolling, .\r\n\r\n- Oh my gosh.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, this is real healthy. We're doing nothing but nothing but healthy responses to these questions.\r\n\r\n- Have you tried the Headspace app? We're not sponsored. Don't try the Headspace app.\r\n\r\n- Headspace app. I actually did have a stint on the Headspace app, but I won't go down that like tangent. But yeah, so I spend time there and then usually Dude comes back in the room and he decides he's gonna be my alarm clock, despite the fact that I actually have my own alarm clock. He takes it upon himself to get me out of bed. And so after a lot of like growling and scratching and begging, I'm like, okay, let's do this. And the first thing I usually do is go in the kitchen and make coffee and the first thing Dude does is lays down in the hall and falls back to sleep. So...\r\n\r\n- Naturally.\r\n\r\n- Right, that's how my day gets going.\r\n\r\n- Dang! They might have a less regimented routine now that that's like super regimented, but like it's.\r\n\r\n- It's detailed.\r\n\r\n- It's detailed. It's still detailed .\r\n\r\n- There is something you do every single morning, does anybody like have no, like a particular thing? Like I'm less regimented like in the afternoons and also in the morning sometimes I'm like, roll out bed, close on, grab bite, eat outdoor, just like that.\r\n\r\n- That sounded like cloud with a chance of meatballs. Roll out of bed. That was good, that was good. No, don't look at me, I'm real regimented.\r\n\r\n- Do you hand your clothes in the morning too?\r\n\r\n- No.\r\n\r\n- Oh okay, good.\r\n\r\n- No, no.\r\n\r\n- The second pressing.\r\n\r\n- The second pressing. Second pressing.\r\n\r\n- No, but that is a good idea though, that is a good idea though, hmm.... I'm really regimented.\r\n\r\n- So no, no.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- I still consider myself a morning person, even though I don't do all that kind of stuff. Like I'm up and I'm awake and I'm like, okay let's do this all right, I'm gonna drive to work. Woohoo, yell at people again, yay! There's a lot of yelling in my life I'm sorry y'all.\r\n\r\n- Three sets of eyes, just looked at me, like...\r\n\r\n- Talk about some things.\r\n\r\n- Intervention.\r\n\r\n- In the morning, usually it starts with music, but I'll usually just say my prayers in the morning and then I get up, my music is going, there's some TikTok scrolling in there, but my music is rolling. I start my day with music, I end my work day with music. Yeah. I only really lay stuff out. Sometimes in my head I do, I just lay in the bed and look at the closet and figure out what I'm gonna pull out and keep going.\r\n\r\n- And the clothes float over and you're like, yes.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, I mean, right now my closet right now is regurgitating. I need to get some organization in my life right now, but it's okay, it's all clean.\r\n\r\n- So there was a method to all those questions of why we do that before. And I think it's because we haven't approached it from that stance of, all right, what are these people actually doing when they're not working? And like, really, I think about those moments either right after work or right before work, we always think that's who we exist as is those moments of we're always either getting ready to go to work or always winding down from work. And that's really not the case because I think we all do have something that we do beyond just that preparation to leave work or preparation before work. And I do want to acknowledge that and know that there are things that we do as people that are important, that these are all small snippets of our life and we organize our life around making sure that we have time to do other things. And so sometimes having that routine is super helpful to get us to where we actually want to go. And not that we don't want to go to work. I would say that everybody in this room, not speaking for everybody, I enjoy my job, . I enjoy going to work. I don't get the scaries on Sunday or Monday or whenever I don't have a remote day. But also I do think about like how I'm gonna plan to allocate more time to the people in my life and to the things that I want to do beyond this. And Catherine, if you don't mind sharing a little bit too about the project that you just completed or not completed quite yet, but you're working on it. You've just spent a great deal of time on that and you were afforded the opportunity to do this. So if you don't mind sharing a little bit about that.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, definitely. So, and over the last six months, and I would say honestly prior to that, probably a year, it took a year just of planning and prep, but I took on the project of building a house with my dad. We're still building it's still happening, but we've got a house that's dried in, it's got a roof on it, shingles, and, you know, we're getting ready to insulate, so we're on the second half, we're getting on the back half now.\r\n\r\n- Don't iron insulation Cate.\r\n\r\n- Know that Rudy.\r\n\r\n- That is so awesome.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I think too the side of that, that's so curious. You know, if the bones are good, the rest don't matter. No, I think it's, important to think about the, like, time allocation from that stance of like, we were talking the other day, you're like, yeah by like nine o'clock. It's time for the first break of the day.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- And your whole schedule has kind of shifted and then you would come in on Thursdays and Fridays and continue to work. How did you space that out? How did you find time to do both of those? And given there was like a shift in your work schedule, but tell us a little bit about that.\r\n\r\n- I was really fortunate to, in the career center, you know, we have an amazing team and we have amazing leadership. So I was really fortunate to be able to go part-time for six months to really get the project underway. And so that's essentially what that schedule looked like is Friday evenings, Saturday mornings ish to Wednesday evenings, I was working on the house. And then Wednesday evening to Friday afternoon\/evening, I was on like Duke Career Center, that was my work slash whatever else wasn't getting done during like, house time. So, and the workday looked totally different too. We would usually start, I mean, truth be told, truth be told...\r\n\r\n- Hmm...\r\n\r\n- The first couple weeks my dad was showing up at the house site at like 6, 6:30 and I didn't roll in until about eight because I was trying to, I was still on my like, previous schedule, but I... But now it's usually around seven, latest day would be 7:30. And then we usually in end like 3:34 and I get like an afternoon nap, which is like same.\r\n\r\n- Great.\r\n\r\n- Yeah, . So it's... Those days looked a whole lot different than the regular, like come into eight, you know, at 8:30, leave at five situation.\r\n\r\n- What... Let me ask you a question and I know you talked about the time and adjusting, but what's really been the toughest part of this?\r\n\r\n- Oh my gosh. Which, which one, which one would you like? 'Cause there's been multiple, .\r\n\r\n- heart, feel free, Catherine.\r\n\r\n- I think for me, I've always taken pride in knowing a thing and feeling good about doing that work or that task. You know, if any of us are planning a program or if, you know, we're collaborating together, like I feel really good about like, oh, I can do this, I can bring this to the table, this is, you know, here's some great ideas. This is how this would work. The systems in which we like operate, like for marketing, for like reserving the space, all this stuff, this I literally knew nothing. I knew nothing.... I was about to say next to nothing, but that would be a lie, I knew nothing.\r\n\r\n- Hmm...\r\n\r\n- And so, literally my dad's like, \"Here's a hammer, you're gonna need to hold onto this.\" And then I would show up for literally like three weeks. I would show up and he'd be like, \"Where's that hammer I gave you?\" And I'd be like, I don't know where the... can I just borrow yours? And you know, in construction world, like you, this is a big deal to ask to borrow somebody, a tool. So finally I got my act together and I had, you know, eventually I had collected like a set of tools that I could keep up with, like in the back of my car now. Like it just rides with me everywhere. You know, I have a hammer, a measuring tape, a pencil, gloves, a utility knife, I lost my utility knife. He's still mad at me about that one. But I mean, it took me a long time just to even show up prepared much less like be able to understand what it was we're doing. And even then, like if my dad would say, \"Well I need you to hold this piece of wood here.\" I would for easily the first four months. There were times where I'm like, I don't even know why I'm holding this here. I don't like, what are we trying to do here again? I mean, I know you told me, but it didn't really compute.\r\n\r\n- I'm not gonna have to stay here forever.\r\n\r\n- Right, right. So that was very hard 'cause it was literally like the opposite of my nature of always wanting to like know and be confident in what I know and not like overextend into something that I don't know what I'm doing. I mean, I just like jumped in the deep end on that one.\r\n\r\n- Yeah. And I think there's some good wisdom in that for our students too and being someone who works with students on a day-to-day basis as well Catherine, what message would you tell them when they're thinking about taking on a project like that and what it could look like to make that transition in their life?\r\n\r\n- Yeah. Well, I mean, my first thought is don't do it.\r\n\r\n- Yeah.\r\n\r\n- But...\r\n\r\n- Maybe not construction. No, but the reality is, is like you could hear this story, you could hear me say, don't do it and you don't wanna do it 'cause it's something that is like within you, that's driving you. And that's how I was with this project too. If, you know, somebody could have said, no, don't do it. And I would've been like, whatever, I'll figure it out. So do it. Do the thing that's like within you that you're really driven to do, but be really gentle with yourself. Like, be really nice to yourself about it. That's not something that I think is always easy to do, is to give yourself a break. Especially when you're in a whole new environment and trying to, you know, do something that's totally different from your like, comfort zone in your day-to-day. It's not like you are gonna stretch your comfort zone. You're literally gonna get picked up like helicopter style and like, you know, mission impossible, whatever dropped into this other . Like that's what's gonna happen. And so you gotta be real, real gentle with yourself. And honestly, like, take naps, I'm serious, sleep, eat well. Surround yourself with people that know what they're doing. I can't tell you like the number of evenings after dinner, I would just sit in the living room with my dad and we would watch YouTube videos about a thing or we would talk through what are we doing the next day so that I could sort of get like a primer before showing up and having to help do this thing. So surround yourself with people that know what they're doing. Do not be afraid to ask questions. Like you have to just suspend this feeling that you have any, that you have any knowledge, right? Like you just have to like, it's, yeah. You just, I mean, you have to let it go. Like you just got, you can't, it's fine. You're gonna have those moments. You just gotta let it go. And the sooner you can do that, the better off you'll be, to be honest with you.\r\n\r\n- Hmm. You know, I think in, in a world of perfect, which I think often higher education, particularly prestigious higher education institutions, maybe unintentionally push students towards it, it's important to hear that, that you don't necessarily have to be perfect right off the bat, like you are still figuring things out and some people it may take years. Catherine and I are both talking about our dads who have similar kind of backgrounds when it comes to building and they've been doing this for 30 plus years in their lives and they know this stuff. And there is one moment where they, I'm sure they didn't know all the stuff about why they were holding that plank of wood, but eventually, you know, years down the road they might have discovered, \"Oh, this is why I need to do this, or this is why this is happening.\" And I'm sure something else changed in that process too, where the thing they always did suddenly changed to something else and they had to adapt and that really is life in so many ways. To my colleagues as well, what are some things in your life that you have done that caused you to step outta your comfort zone to begin to do something new? And how did you go about that process?\r\n\r\n- While working full-time?\r\n\r\n- Yeah, while working full-time yeah. Or it could be applying to a new job and starting a new job.\r\n\r\n- Mmm... I'm thinking.\r\n\r\n- I thought it was gonna come, that's why I was like, wait.\r\n\r\n- Hmm...\r\n\r\n- Okay.\r\n\r\n- Hmm...\r\n\r\n- I think for me, just doing something new and jumping into something I did not know was when I started with my work, because I needed a reprieve 'cause I was at a point where I didn't like, oh my gosh, I gotta go to work tomorrow. Like, I don't wanna do this. Like, so I needed something to kind of like break free. And I think my mom saw that. So she literally put the machine in my hand and said, \"Take it and go figure it out.\" So that's kind of what I did. And it was very therapeutic, it still is very therapeutic. Trying to be able to be creative, creative in my own sense and doing different things and, oh, does this work? Oh, it doesn't work. Well, let's try it this way. And turning my bathroom into a workshop, like, it's pretty, pretty dope. So I think that was one of those things. It came in a time where I was stressed and it was a way to relieve some of my stress.\r\n\r\n- Hmm... When we are trying to do the things that our lives that we are hoping to do and sometimes there are things that may come up that are more important and sometimes that is working certain jobs that we need to do, but also we should always lean into that part of us that is helping us to become who we hope to be. If that makes sense. It means that we have these ideas, these things that make us more than just what we are doing from nine to five. And it's important to lean into that as well because that makes us a whole person. It makes us a person that goes out and carries out something that we like to talk about a lot, which is purpose. Finding purpose in our day-to-day can be in our nine to five, outside of our nine to five. It could be going and building, it could be working and creating designs. It could be, I used to blog a little bit and that helped to give me a little bit more purpose beyond what I was doing. And so I encourage you to lean into those things, whatever they may be. Try to find time to schedule a routine so you have a little bit of extra time to really take care of those pieces that make you who you are to lean into your purpose a little more today. This has been what's Career got to Do with IT podcast. And I hope you have a great rest of your day.\r\n\r\n- Bye y'all.\r\n\r\n- Thank you Catherine.\r\n\r\n- Thank you.","author_name":"Sandhya Pakala","html":"\u003Ciframe width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/w\/Bf4HAA\/\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"autoplay; encrypted-media; camera; microphone; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen\u003E\u003C\/iframe\u003E","height":360,"width":640,"thumbnail_height":360,"thumbnail_width":640,"url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/w\/Bf4HAA\/","type":"video","title":"S3 E5 Beyond the 9-5 with Catherine Allen, Assistant Director, Duke Career Center","thumbnail_url":"https:\/\/warpwire.duke.edu\/img\/10ED13AE-DB77-4E78-BDAA-21F9B14D30E1\/3D8DFBE0-AC44-4F0C-9104-59DD0BDFCFBA\/large\/"}